Chameaqua - Snubian Doe
This season I am experimenting with management of the dairy goat kids.
In the dairy world (cow, sheep and goat) the herd keeper either bottle raises their dairy kids, or they allow the kids to be raised by their dams.
I normally bottle raise my dairy kids.
Bottle raising kids is a huge undertaking, especially in cold weather. One year, during a blizzard, we had 19 kid goats in the house at once. We had dog crates everywhere. Sleeping, eating, bathing, all of the normal human functions in the house were difficult. The washer and dryer ran constantly.
Why did I do it? I wanted to protect the dam’s udders. I wanted the udders symmetrical (goat udders have 2 compartments), and I did not want their udders to suffer any injury from the kids. Goat kids really “knock” hard on their dam’s udder when they are nursing. Knocking on the udder helps to release more milk. The releasing, or dropping, of milk is entirely hormone/mental/physical.
This year I decided to allow the first dairy doe that freshened (to give birth) to raise her kids. So far it is working well.
Chameaqua (a snubian doe, one of my own past kids) gave birth to two doelings. She took to motherhood like a champ. She came back to the milk-stand like a champ as well. I do not excessively milk her out. I basically even up her udder, releasing any pressure. Like a God-send, her twins are pretty much nursing from one side of her udder.
I have been able to put precious colostrum back in the freezer, which is always a necessity for a goat person to have on hand.
Note: I ensure a kid has colostrum in their belly within the first 4 hours of birth. A kid’s first drink of colostrum affects their health for the rest of their lives. And, a goat kid cannot maintain their own body heat without fuel in their belly.
With Chameaqua passing the dam-raised test, I will be allowing all of the dairy girls to raise their kids.
No more heartache for me. It was not easy to remove their kids. Plus, I will still put milk in the freezer (for soap or kids) and/or have fresh milk on hand for lotion.
Everything will work out perfectly!
Annies Goat Hill Handcrafted Soaps 
Good stuff Mary! We dam raise our kids unless we need to bottle raise we will but with our schedules here, it worked out best to leave them on their dam’s though and we had healthier kids but this is just our opinion though. We’ve had to milk out the engorged or lopsided side too with twins but we don’t normally milk 1st fresheners unless need be. But no more kiddings here right now and we’re not really breeding now either though.
~*~Amy~*~
My concern was that since Chameaqua has freshened twice she would not know to take care of her kids. She is doing so well. I am so very pleased.
I have no idea when my girls will have kids this year. Some do not look pregnant yet. Some look like they are carrying 3-4.
Breeding was a fiasco that was not supposed to have happened. The dairy buck pretty much needs a roof over his pen to keep him from visiting the girls in the middle of the night.
A problem I run into here in tX is bottle babies not growing as well as dam raised kids. Mine will plateau out and stay a bit an the small size even being wormed, normal poops, active, eating grain hay and water in addition to the bottle. Any suggestions? I feed 4-6 oz per goat kid 3-4 times a day as suggested by my vet to encourage them to start eating hay and grain earlier, they also get milk pellets added to their feed.
Susan, whether bottle kids grow as hardily as dam raised kids is a question that pops up. And when it does, I really cannot say I see a difference. In my herd it seems to depend upon the breed itself. For example, the saanan and nubian mixes grow very quickly.
When kids are on their dam they sip, and they sip often. They really are encouraged to eat hay and feed, like your vet said. I feed young bottle kids, newborns, 3-4 bottles a day, allowing them to have 6 ounces or so each feeding. But then I quickly stretch the feedings out to 3 times a day, then twice a day. I continue this practice until the kids are at least 6-8 weeks old. Then I begin weaning them (between 2/12-3 months old). During the 3-8 week period, the kids are allowed to drink up to 20 ounces a bottle. I do not feed them milk pellets. I do encourage the kids to eat alfalfa hay and to drink water.
My bottle kids are the “special cases” kids to begin with, so some are smaller (one of triplets, for example), and will likely be smaller than the rest of the herd until growth ends at 3 years old. One theory that I have with bottle kids, though, is that they are more suspectable to worms, which slows their growth. They are not receiving the constant immunity from their dam’s milk, which is also a topic up for debate. Many say immunities are not absorbed through the milk after the initial few hours of a newborn’s life.
Hi Mary,
This is a great list, I ran across it by accident looking for info on bottle baies. 🙂 I would like to learn how to make an easy soap sometime too and we also make cheeses, mozz, chevre and feta when there is time to do it.
This has been a problem I have had over the years as I have raised goats for approx 10 years now. same senario when I raised pygmies and nigerians as well.
I do plan on taking a fecal sample next week as well to confirm anything, just wanted some goatie people feedback. I have already wormed them with liquid Safeguard 4 days in a row and also Sulmet for coccidia a couple weeks ago.
These are Lamanchas and an alpine. They have only been fed goat non pasturized milk straight after milking the does from a CAE free herd.
I have llimted the amount of milk as my vet said their stomachs only hold 6-8 oz and to overfeed them causes more problems with their rumens and stomach than underfeeding and they will eat grains and hay alot sooner with less milk which they do.
I have had to feed this bunch this year bc the does wouldn’t take the kids for whatever reason. I put a few other kids in with them yesterday that I am weaning off the moms and they are about 2x the size. So I will wait for the fecal result. Like I said they otherwise act and thrive like their brothers and sisters on the moms, just a lot smaller. I can post pics if there is a way to do this.
Also in winter we do have problems with lice with all the deer that are around us. What is the best way do deal with lice?
Susan, lice are common in the cooler months. Once the goats are outdoors and exposed to more warmth, especially sunshine, the lice problem tends to fade during the spring, and diminish in the summer. I use a wormer that also helps with rid the goats of lice, IVOMEC Plus injection for cattle (oral dose for goats 2 ML per 110 pounds).
I have had zero luck with Safeguard. When I have used it, I have dosed at 3 or 4X the dosage listed on the bottle. I used the liquid goat wormer Safeguard, not the horse paste. A veterinarian once told me that the dosage on the bottle is very much under the dose that will work for a goat.
Good luck with your samples.
I still think some kids simply grow slower than others, and some never get to the size we would like to see them. Some of my does, for example, always have good sized kids that grow quickly, and some do not.
Thank again and I will let you know how the fecals are. We had them done approx 5 months ago when we brought in the herd to get sonagrammed and all was well. We ‘ll see what the babies say. So the Ivomct Plus orally? I will try that , I did use the ivermect inj over the winter for the bucks and the does that were on the thinner side. Thanks, Sue 🙂
Thanks, Susan! I hope it works for you as well.
I notice that dam raised kids eat more grass, hay and grain than bottle raised kids because they learn that from their mother. I have heard of humans trying to show their bottle babies how to eat hay and grain although I’m still waiting to see a video of that. (I think that could go viral!) I do wonder if having a grandmother type goat in with the babies would help because she’d be great at modeling how goats eat. Just another thought about the difference in bottle vs dam raised.
Hi Kathrin –
A “grandmother type goat” in with the babies is a great idea.
I tried it myself, held hay to my mouth, smacking as I were the one eating it. It did draw some attention. Once, I encouraged one newborn to eat the hay and others followed. You know how it is, goats do what other goats do (not what humans do).
Thanks for your input! Loved it,
Mary
We’ve done both. After bottle raising something for 2 1/2 years strait, I decided to let the does take care of it this year. Of course our very first babies were sheep where the mom had to be put down…so much for that.
I am only bottle feeding triplet lambs and a single doeling that mom wouldn’t have anything to do with. It certainly is better then them all.
I really worry about the ware and tare on udders too. I only let does keep an even amount of kids (twins or quads) and I think it helps a bit. (I did let one doe raise three of her quads this year and it seems to be working fine. I’m also milking her 3 times a day right now. I milked out a gallon after they were all done eating!)
Twins is certainly the nicest on them. It helps a lot if you are disbudding too!
This subject is an endless debate in the dairy world. I feel like both can be healthy. I do worry about kids growing as well and being more exposed to parasites, but we use creep feeders which helps considerably.
Thanks for stopping by my blog. We have had an amazingly blessed year!
I look forward to stopping by your blog and see what lets loose with all your fat does. 🙂
Hello Bethany! I agree, it is an endless debate. It boils down to doing what is best for us and what is best for our animals.
I look forward to visiting your blog and seeing your new babies and mommas again. I had not been there in a while. You have been busy! Beuatiful animals.
I don’t have the heart to take the babies away from Mama. Also, Mike and I work away from home, so “we” all have jobs. I had to bottle raise Gabbi because SweetPea didn’t recognize her baby after the C-section. Bottle raising ONE was more than enough for me to keep up with. My Nigerian-Dwarf mentor, who is a big-time show breeder, dam raises hers. Also, all her goats are so easy to handle.
It has its good points and bad points as well.
I love your babies, Joanna. And I also love how you and Mike are such loving goat “parents.” And guess what? Your life has changed so much this past year. It is so good that you took the plunge. Now you can enjoy your new lifestyle for so many years to come.
[…] Note: Mary Humphrey, an experienced farmer, at Annie’s Goat Hill explains in this post why she bottle-feeds many of her babies and at one time ended up with 19 in her […]
This is our first year having kids – our does are due starting mid-March and we’re still debating on bottle feeding vs. dam raising. I think we’re currently planning on leaving them on the dam. It just fits better with our work schedule; I work at a veterinary hospital but I’m not sure the doctors would like it if I brought in goat kids every day to bottle feed! 🙂 The does are CAE-neg so that gives me some confidence…
Out of our 4 does, one miscarried 5 kids in January; the two due in March are first fresheners and the final doe due in late April is a fourth freshener (just her first season with us).
Danielle, it sounds like you are going to be busy. I will look forward to hearing about your kidding season!
I don’t milk my goats – but have much preferred to allow kids to stay with the herd and their mothers as much as possible. Bottle raised babies and more compliant with humans but can also develop unfortunate tendencies to jump on humans – pretty painful as they get big! Glad your experiment worked out to your satisfaction – Chameaqua is a gorgeous goat! Less work is more wisdom – at least that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!
Sticking to it, are you? Linda Sue, I have to cut corners somewhere, without cutting out wisdom.
Looks like your plan is working out, Mary! Good for you, and I’m all for less work, too. Just let Mother Nature take her natural course. Best of luck to you this year with your milk goats – sounds like you’re in for surprise babies, too!
Hello, Vickie! I do think this is a win-win situation for all involved. Change is always something a person needs to be aware of, like cleaning out a closet…asking ourselves, “Do we really need to keep that?”
I do remember a house full of baby goats, then moving them to their own little pens , and making sure to bottle-feed them twice a day until they got the hang of drinking from the bottles hung in their stalls. It was a lot of work and a lot of fun, but boy, when I stopped milking the does and let them nurse their own it was like I had been given a vacation! I still miss this sometimes.
Really the only way to get the most from a dairy herd is to do what you already do~ and do well Mary!I am glad it is working out for you and Chameaqua to allow her and the kids to be together AND for you to get her milk too. I hope the rest of the gals work out that way too.
I enjoy milking does that I have raised myself, from birth. That is going to be the downfall to not bottle feeding kids. If I do keep a dairy doeling as a future milker, she is not going to be as easy to work with when it comes to milking (with her not being bottle fed). I could be very wrong. It will be an interesting journey.
OMG. I always knew farming was a lot of work, but add animals to the mix and it sounds like you work 20 hour days!
I think I will stick to our olives – they may fall off a tree in the wind, but at least I don’t have to milk ’em! 🙂
Ann, it is a lot of work. I tell people this, “It is not glamorous. It is hard work. But I enjoy it and do not want to trade the hard work for anything in the world.”
I admire that. We are still trying to decide on having chickens! But we have so many foxes here, I’m not sure it would work out, even with a good henhouse.
Are you ever able to take vacations to see family? We are so far off-grid that I don’t think I could get anyone to feed the stock for me…
We have a lot of raccoons. I plan to bring some chickens back to the farm in the spring. I will have to enclose them in a large dog kennel, with chicken wire across the top, with a ramped chicken house with laying b oxes placed inside. I only want 2 or 3 hens.
Yay! Sounds like you’re not gonna have to work as hard this year. Darn that buck for messing up the schedule!
Yep, he did a number! So far, it seems the births are going to be very spread out. That is a good thing as far as I am concerned. It gives me time to do other things in-between, and, more kids will be born when it begins to warm a bit out there.