Goats require selenium for optimum health. Unfortunately, soil in much of the United States, and other countries, is deficient in selenium. When soil is lacking in selenium, so are the grains and hay that are produced from the deficient area.
What is selenium? Selenium is a trace mineral essential to health, but needed only in small amounts. Selenium is important to a goat for proper gait, healthy pregnancies, and strong kids that grow well. Selenium deficiency can lead to White Muscle Disease (commonly – newborn kids with weak legs) and can affect the immune system as well.
How can selenium deficiency be prevented?
- Check to see if the soil in your area is deficient. Use as an example only – an older map of selenium status in the United States can be found here. If you are unsure if your area has a selenium deficiency, ask your county agriculture extension office, a local goat club, or find an online group with members that raise goats in your area.
- If your area is deficient, supplement your goats throughout the year with quality minerals that contain both selenium and vitamin E (and other needed minerals, such as copper).
- An annual injection of selenium may also be needed.
Can too much selenium be given to a goat? Yes! When injecting a goat with a selenium supplement, follow your veterinary instructions very carefully. We use an injection called Bo-Se (a combination of selenium and vitamin E). The prescribed amount is 1 ML per 40 lbs of goat weight. If a kid is born weak, for example, and the kid weighs 10 lbs, we give an injection of no more than 1/4 ml. Too much selenium can be toxic! Follow instructions carefully. Toxicity does not normally occur from feeds containing selenium, but toxicity does occur from injections. Too much selenium results in the same symptoms as a lack of, and the toxicity normally cannot be reversed.
What are the signs of selenium deficiency? Weak legs. Kids born dead or too weak to nurse. Stunted growth. Poor coats. Poor gait. A lack of milk. Abortions and kids that are resorbed (fetus absorbed by the doe early in pregnancy).
What do we do on our farm to prevent selenium deficiency? Loose mineral supplementation. Feed alfalfa mix hay in additional to pasture. A selenium vaccine is given during gestation, 30-45 days prior to the doe’s due date (assists both the doe and the unborn kid, boosts birthing strength as well). Supplementing the bucks in a deficient area will also help prevent immune diseases, and will assist with the production of semen.
As always, be cautious with any injections, supplements or medications. Follow your veterinarian’s advice. Educate yourself. Remember, though, do what works best for your farm and your region! For example, management practices that work in Southern California may not work in Ohio due to a difference in climate, soil, and the overall condition of your animals.
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Thanks, Mary, we live in a selenium deficient area also. Do you need a prescription for BoSe? Can I give selenium tablets from the healthfood store?? If so how much? I’m so afraid of overdosing…
Bo-Se does require a prescription, or you can go to just about any vet and purchase it, Diane. Generally, you can stop in and ask for it, no office visit with an animal needed.
I prefer the Bo-Se injections because goats metabolize treatments so quickly and in different manners than other types of animals. I would feel more comfortable with giving an injection that would remain effective for a very long time, and, with the injection you can dose more accurately.
I hope that helped.
Good information Mary!
Amy in Kentucky (on the way back to Ohio).
So true….Never get caught without Bo-Se every kid has a better chance at life with jump start. Mom gets it 2 weeks before birth here and it helps with the delivery process. Had to learn the hard way.
Thanks for all the great info
Thank you, Christine.
I’m new to having goats, I just got a one week old Nubian bottle baby yesterday, inwhich he is walking stiff legged (if he walks) he mostly just stands around or lays down. He almost acts like his legs are sore and limps. If I have him treated at the vet with BoSe injection(s) will his walking and condition improve or will his reamin this way for the rest of his life? Im clueless, any suggestions from experience are greatly appreciated! 😉 He also does a little sniffling/sneezing (not alot) maybe once an hour or so..i just thought this may be normal
Tony, if the bottle baby is walking stiff-legged it could be caused by a selenium deficiency, but I also suspect something could be be going on in the rumen as well. A goat, especially a young kid, will walk stiff-legged when they are not feeling well. I would definitely have the vet take a look and treat the kid, especially since you are in-experienced (we all start out that way). If the problem is due to a lack of selenium, yes, it can be treated, and the treatment would work long-term. It is good to treat with selenium once a year in areas where there are selenium deficiencies in the soil. Some sniffling and sneezing is normal, but can also be the start of pneumonia, common in seasons when the weather is up and down in temperatures and wetness. It sounds like a vet visit would be beneficial to you and the goat. Best of luck!
Just a follow up:: I did decide to take him to the veterinarian this morning! I found out that he has “Joint Ill” from an umbillical infection. His poor knees/joints are swollen (me being new at this thought they looked big, but didnt know they were abnormally big) anyways the infection has traveled to his joints and is causing them to be inflammed, hints why he is not walking very well and limping. So now…its IM injections of antibiotics for the next 24 days! YAY! just glad to get it under control! Thank you so much for your advice I really appreciate it! 🙂
Toni, your vet’s diagnosis really does make sense. I am glad you got a good answer and now treatments. And so glad you came back and told me about it!
Hi Mary
I am following up on advice for my doe- she may have had a reabsorbed birth last summer- the people I bought her from said she was bred but she never gave birth. She has severe loss of hair on her neck and patches on her back, and I was suspecting perhaps zinc deficiency, but have been advised that it is more likely selenium deficiency. However, the only muscle problems I have seen is what looks like shaking or shivering in the morning, not later in the day, and no leg or hoof problems I can see. Does this sound like it might be selenium deficiency? I suspected mites but the vet said he does not think it is that, since her 10 month old daughter, who sleeps with her, has no problem at all. Thank you for any advice!
Hi Katharine –
I would not rule out a selenium deficiency. If you have not treated with selenium yet, it definitely would not hurt to do so. Selenium deficiency can show up as birthing difficulties (including resorbing fetuses, retaining placentas), hair loss, slow growth, and difficulties with the functioning of the reproductive system (problems with breeding). Follow the directions that the vet gives you for the selenium dosage.
Shaking can indicate an iron deficiency as well, weakness, some hair loss, which is what I thought of when you said she is shaking in the morning. Ivermectin PLUS, injectable for cattle, is a great wormer for use on goats. It is effective in removing both internal and external parasites. I dose (oral) at 2 ML per 110 pounds.
Copper and zinc work hand in hand. Copper is an important mineral in preventing iron deficiency. Copper deficiencies can lead to poor coats (rough with a loss of color). Zinc deficiency can lead to hoof and coat problems as well.
With all of this being said, I would dose selenium, worm (if you have not already done so, with a wormer that treats both external and interal parasites), and provide the goat(s) with loose minerals or a mineral block specifically formulated for goats.
Best wishes!
Have you had experience with a selenium deficient kid? The one I replied about above was showing no improvement (wasnt really expecting him to much since we are not finished with the antibiotic injections) however I was noticing more stiffness in his hind legs. I ended up taking him on Tueasday to another veterinarian, who also thought it might be joint ill, however he went ahead and gave him an injection of BoSe. By last night he was Running..yes Running (with a minor limp in the front) across my living room for his bottle!!!! So… how many days/injections do you give a kid who is recovering/ill from selenium? 🙂 I am really happy he has improved just since Tuesday!
Toni, that is excellent news! Only one injection, no more than that! One per year, no more than two (6 months apart) is my rule of thumb. Selenium can be overdosed on, causing the same reactions as a deficiency does, and even death.
Selenium works very quickly in a goat. In a kid it is so obvious. They go from walking and leg problems to “up and at ’em” within hours. You will continue to see improvements from the single treatment.
Wow, you goat people are awesome! I do have minerals in pellet form for goats, and loose minerals that are supposed to be a bovine/goat mix, but she has not been taking them. Yesterday I ground up the pellets in the food processor and spread it over a little bread with some malt extract syrup- she ate it right up. I will give the selenium- thanks for the advice!
You are welcome, Katharine.
I have never seen minerals in pellet form. A bovine/goat mix should work since it would contain copper. The malt extract syrup will help with iron. I would offer it in very small amounts. I have known folks that diluted molasses down and sprayed it on their low-quality hay to entice the goats to eat, and to add extra nutrients.
Be careful with the selenium. I think you goat can use it, but you do not want to overdose. You may be able to get one injection from your vet. The one dose will do the job.
Hi Mary,
My husband and I have currently have two goats they are in the same area and one is doing good running playing and eating. The second one is just laying around and very weak and will not eat much at all. After reading all your post it seems to be more about the kids (ours are a year old and we have not attempted breeding) can the lack of selenim still be the issue? or would it be showing in both goats not just one?
Pat, mineral deficiencies occur in different goats. Side by side, take 5 goats, 4 will be healthy, shiny coat, not looking rough and one will simply need TLC (extra minerals, selenium, etc…). One goat can be deficient and not show it as much as the other. I hope that helps. I have had difficulties from time to time with anemic goats too. One wormer doesn’t work on all goats. Again, watch the wormer (look for pale eyelids, should be bubble gum pink – no sallow or white), minerals, good feed.
Thank You Mary,
we took June to the vets today and she has what is called deer worm. We may not be able to save her but we are going to do everything we can. Per the vet this is very common in the South which being from up state NY we did not know this so we have learned a lot today. Thank you for your assistance.
Pat, I hope June does respond to the treatments.
I believe what you are talking about the meningeal worm, also called the deer worm. When you have the time, I would like to hear what treatments the vet gave for the worm, and what symptoms you noticed beforehand. I am asking this so we can help others.
We built our barn and goat lots over an area that the deer populated. When a person thinks, “It will never happen to me,” think again. Sometimes we think we are doing wonderful things, when, in fact, we are creating problems. The lush green seemed an ideal spot to me, but, being that we were not familiar with the meningeal worm we did not catch the symptoms of the one young buck until it was too late.
From what I understand the meningeal worm is an internal parasite that is deposited from white tail deer. It passes through deer bodies without causing significant health problems. The parasite does cause major problems for animals that are not the natural hosts, such as sheep and goats, and even worse for llamas and alpacas. Cattle are normally not affected.
The meningeal worm, unlike other common internal parasites, travel to the brain (instead of in the stomach or intestines).
Symptoms range from weakness, limpness, lameness in one or more legs, blindness, circling/wandering about, and paralyzation.
Treatment is difficult. It includes very high does of anthelmintics (chemical wormers) and in some cases, steroids.
It is best to not allow goats to graze in areas that are populated by deer, and especially in damp areas that do not drain off well, such as woodsy regions.
I need to write a blog post on this! Any help, actual experiences with this condition, will help me do so.
Thank you!
Hi, we have recently lost several of our kids, all between 1-3 weeks old. Unfortunately, we didn’t give BoSe quickly enough. However, we have lost three more kids even after we gave them BoSe. The vet said if they were already affected by the deficiency, the shots wouldn’t help and we will probably lose a few more. After reading your information/comments, it seems like we shouldn’t have lost more after treatment. Any thoughts? The kids have all seemed healthy and nursing fine. The next day one will be dead. This is our first time with goats and it is horrible. I love them, but can’t stand all this death. Any advice or info would be greatly appreciated.
In my experience with goats, kids that showed signs of selenium deficiency had bowed front legs, weak back legs, unable to stand or nurse, coughing on milk while nursing. And, my experience was that selenium given by injection as a newborn did help.
Kids that are on their feet, strong, and nursing, in my opinion, may not be selenium deficient. You may want to have one of the kids tested for the cause of death.
I have never known a goat owner that did not experience at least one difficult kidding season, especially when they owned a number of goats. But, it is painful. With the selenium treatments while the goats are pregnant, and minerals in the feed (or via a mineral feeder), good hay (if the browse is poor), wormings when needed (or on a scheduled basis), your next kidding season should be brighter.
Hiya! I was wondering if there is any supplement that will help with the selenium issue… so far so good with our crew of lovlies
I suggest a mineral mix that the goats can ingest free-choice. I would not purchase mineral labeled “for goats and sheep,” to ensure the mix contains all of the needed minerals specific to goats (i.e. copper, vitamin E).
If your area is very selenium deficient I would still give the goats an annual dose of selenium via injection.
Best wishes!
Mary
Thanks for that. An old dairy farmer told me about the deficiency in the ground where he is…. my country is a bit different, so maybe that’s why I’ve had little trouble so far… so off I go to the feed place and start reading labels…
Stay in touch, Sharon-Ann!
Hiya! My trip to the feed shop was more than successful! I found a product called ‘ NRG Calcium with magnesiunm and selenium’ Woohoo!! It’s an Australian product …. the website…www.nrgteam.com.au …. hope that helps anyone else who’s chicken at giving needles 😉
I had to giggle at your “chicken at giving needles” comment.” I am terrified of them myself, when it comes to humans, but can be the vet without a blink of an eye.
Great info about http://www.nrgteam.com.au! I’ll remember these comments for anyone from Australia that needs help!
I was wonderig how well the selenium gel with vitamin E works? I keep out minerial mix that has selenium in it. I have a momma that had an infection with a set of twins, I have got here over the infection but she is not producing yet what she should milk wise and I have been bottleing the babys to take some the sress off though they will not take much from the bottle, know one is limping i can not find anything wrong with the leg so thought about white muscle dieseas or it could be his brother laid on him. But thought better safe then sorry. I do not have any BO SE but I do have some gel that has selenuim and vitiam E in it. I give her a dose and was going to give both babies a dose but wonder how good it worked. Any idea, would appreciate any comments.
Jason, I am not a huge fan of supplements in gel form. On the other hand, you have been giving the dam minerals with selenium. I would definitely try the gel on the kids since you have been offering a mineral mix all along. Sometimes you have to work with a kids leg, sort of help them along. Massage the area, encourage them to stand on it. Do it on a regular basis. Also,
I am not sure how long ago the doe have birth, but the milk does increase in volume after a week or so. And, since she had an infection it may have slowed her milk production down. It may not pock back up until the next time she has kids. Once the volume decreases due to a health issue, for example, it normally stays at a lower volume until the next season. Good luck!
Hi Mary, Thank you so much for this post. I just called our local vet to order Bo-Se. In January my 3 year old doe who is due to kid in a few weeks was treated with Meningeal worm. I treated her with 30ml of safeguard for 5 days and 3 notches on an Equimax drench for 3 days. I also used essential oils on her. At the start of treatment she was unable to stand by herself, had a stargazing look in her eyes. She was eating and drinking. After treatment she was not only getting up by herself but walking around too. She had a little limp in her gate but other than that seemed fine. Two weeks ago she was not able to get up again. This time I felt it was different, she wanted to get up she just couldn’t lift her back end. I should say she is VERY pregnant. I again treated her for Meningeal worm, still nothing. After talking with a vet he said treat her for toxemia so I treated with a steroid, penicillin and vitamin B. She is happy, eating, drinking, social and seems “normal” she just can’t get her back end up on her own. When I help he she presses on them and stretches, she can stand for awhile but then needs to lay down. She wants to walk she just can’t, we do deep bedding in the barn over winter and I think that does add to her unsteadiness. She is due on March 24th. Last night I met a woman who has goats (in the area we live I think there 4 of us). She suggested that my goat might have white muscle disease. I have just ordered Bo-Se from a local vet. Do you have any experience or have heard of anyone dealing with this issue in a pregnant doe?
No, I’ve had no experience with white muscle disease in a pregnant doe.
In addition to administering Bo-Se, and treating for toxemia, you may take a look at the possibility of ketosis in your doe. Here is a great description and treatment for the ailment: http://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm
Best wishes!
Hi Mary,
I am new to goat breeding, I have had my 2 Nigerian dwarf does for about 4 months, I am currently leasing a buck who hasn’t shown much interest in either doe yet (about 2 weeks) I am giving my does free choice minerals that contains copper and selenium, I am also giving them Kop-sel daily along with about half a cup each of grain that contains copper and selenium-would you still recommend a bo-sel injection? the older doe has a rougher coat and “fishtail” which is why I started giving the kop-sel and grain.
Thanks
Rj
Hello Rj –
If your area is known to be selenium deficient I would give the BoSe injection. Dose exactly the amount the vet prescribes. If your area is not deficient, I would ask your vet if he/she advises the Bose.
I wouldn’t be concerned about offering the loose minerals and giving the BoSe if your farm is located in a deficient area.
Best wishes –
Mary
HI, I have a goat kid that is 2 months old. WHen born his mama abandoned him but was ok withhis sister. SO we fed him a bottle and around 2 weeks he had scours, so we figured out to give him C & D antitoxin and the diarrhea went away instantly so we then vaccinated with CDT. He was good for about 2 weeks, he would run to get his bottle, i feed him a bottle 3 times a day of goats milk. Then one morning went out and he just couldnt walk on his front legs, he can stand up great when you stand him up an he can move the back legs, but he just cant move the front legs foreward. He has been like this for 1 week now, we have been giving him Naxcel, i gave him Vitamin E, gave him selenium gel and I gave him Vitamin D. Ever since being born he has been separated from the herd, he is in his own little area so i know no one hurt him. He walked fine for the first 7 weeks of his life and now he cant walk. Im confused. He can stand if you stand him up. He will try to take a few steps then he lets out a cry and falls down, He eats hay, grass, and a bottle just fine. He has also been dewormed with Safe Guard but his eyelids are a bright pink so he is in no way anemic. Please help me find out what the problem is.
Hello –
It sounds to me like the buckling may have FKS (floppy kid syndrome). I have not written a blog post on FKS, here is a link to one that has detailed treatment and diagnosis: http://www.goatworld.com/articles/fks/fksrw.shtml.
Keep up the treatment for 3 days, and call in the vet if he doesn’t improve quickly. Young kids get FKS during and after their first few weeks.
Best wishes!
I have a two week old kid who will not suckle. I can syringe about an ounce In him twice a day but no more than that. He is active, but not as active as his brother who is a champ at the bottle. I’m worried about him because he will not take a bottle. He is a Nigerian dwarf baby. Ive tried many nipples including pritchard. I have better luck with the pritchard, can squeeze the bottle and he swallows until hes had an ounce then fights and stops and wont swallow. Any tips on what it might be?
Liz, when did he stop nursing? Did he nurse colostrum the day he was born?
According to the breeder who isn’t reliable he was nursing great but then he said it several times so looking back he might have just been saying that to offload those precious babies, but he is kind of spunky, especially in the beginning so I’m sure he did get something. He nursed for the First 4ish days of life. He was born on the 5th and came to us on the 9th. He stopped eating other than forcefeeding when he came to us assuming he was nursing well on mom like the breeder said.
It sounds like the kid may have colostrum deprivation, which can affect him weeks and months after he is born. I suggest, though, that you take him to the vet to get a definite diagnosis and treatment. If he isn’t nursing, he’ll grow weak quickly. Best wishes.
Hi Mary, I truly hope you can give me some advise on one of my goats…I have 5. My 8 month old boy does not act like the other goats. He lays around a lot and when he tries to run he falls down. This happens all the time….it seems he is always on the ground poor little baby. I noticed that his back legs seem larger thn my other goats. He is black and his coat was discolored. I took him to the vet and they checked him for worms and he has none. The vet told me that being that we live in Florida he probably has a copper and selenium deficiency. So I treated him with copasure and I also gave him selenium and vitamine E gel this past Monday. The vet didn’t have BOSE. Do you think this will help him? And if so how long before I start seeing a change in his walking. His coat is looking better already. He doens’t like to eat the minerals. I feed him peanut hay and sweet feed. We also have well water which I was told might be a problem.
I look forward to hearing from you. It seems you know more about goats than the vets around here.
Thanks
Hi Miriam –
I’ll start off with saying we lived in Ohio when we raised goats. We raised our goats on rich alfalfa hay, which was a blessing to have been able to afford via our neighboring Mennonite farms. I learned of peanut hay just yesterday. It, and alfalfa, are high in protein. I plan to eventually begin raising goats again myself, so knowing what type of hay is good for goats in Florida is very helpful.
I am glad you took your buck to the vet. I am sorry that you felt he didn’t know much about goats. It seems finding a vet that knows much about goats can be a hit or miss type of thing, regardless of where you live.
On to my thoughts about your buck…
Based on your description, I immediately thought of a mineral deficiency. He could also need selenium.
Because you have seen improvement, I feel the selenium that he has absorbed from the gel has helped, however, selenium deficient goats improve faster and more effectively when they are injected with a prescription dose such as BOSE. They do not process the selenium as quickly via an oral treatment.
Can your vet order a bottle of BOSE for your herd? Do you know of any goat farmers (perhaps do an online search) that would be willing to sell a single dose to you? A single dose for him, and perhaps one for each of your other four goats, might be all they need for a full year.
You might consider purchasing a goat feed that is mineral balanced, one that includes selenium. I fed sweet feed to my milkers, so I have no issues with using it as a feed. I would imagine you do not feed it free choice, which I also agree with. Can you segregate the buck out at feeding (I know…tough to do) to eat the specialized feed? My thinking is, since he doesn’t like minerals very much, he might take to the feed better than he does loose minerals.
The water can be a concern. I learned that water, for example, high in iron can throw off copper balance in some goats. It sounds like the rest of your herd are doing well, though, so I would not worry about the water so much as helping your buck get to a balance.
I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Mary
Thanks for your advise Mary. So do you think I can give him the BoSe even if I gave him the selenium gel last week?? Or maybe wait a while. If so I will try to get a prescription from a vet so that I can treat him, because I feel so bad that he can’t run around like the others.
I am giving him some mineral with animal crackers. He loves animal crackers So I wet them a little and sprinkle the mineral on them and he eats it right up. I just don’t know what else to do for him to eat minerals….he just doesn’t like it.
Anyway, I will keep you posted on his recovery. Thanks again and I hope to hear from you.
Miriam
Hi Miriam –
Ahhh…how we spoil our babies! Animal crackers (goats love them, don’t they?) with minerals sprinkled on top.
By the time you receive the BoSe, probably in a week or so, you’ll be safe. I wouldn’t worry about the amount of selenium that he absorbed from the gel, it isn’t going to cause him to overdose. Be careful with the amount that you inject with the BoSe. I hope you come back and tell me you’ve seen remarkable results.
Great job on the minerals! Continue loving and spoiling…that’s what us goat people do.
Mary
Hi Mary, I will be getting the BoSe today (hopefully)An animal rescuer friend of mine that works at a vet ordered for me. So how much should I give him? The poor little boy can’t hardly stand up anymore….he walks a little and has to lay down. I truly hope this works 😦 Keep your fingers crossed and say a little prayer for my Gordo.
I continue giving him the animal crackers with minerals….he loves them 🙂
Hello There –
The BoSe that I received from my vet was prescribed at 1 ML per 40 lbs. Check your label. I think all BoSe is manufactured at the same strength, but it is way too important to be correct.
Animal crackers…oh, what memories I have of them! Some goats adore them! The one that loved them the most in my herd was my large boer buck. He seemed to suck them down like he were drinking them through a straw.
Best wishes, Gordo…my fingers are crossed and prayers are said.
By the way, I am writing a book about goats. I’ll announce it here, or talk about it as I go.
Thank you so very much for your advise. I will let you know how he is doing in a few days. Wow a book….good luck with that.
Take care Mary
Hello Mary: Just wanted to update you on Gordo. I gave him the BOSE injection yesterday around noon and as of today I have not seen any improvement. He is still falling down and spends most of his time laying down because his legs can’t support him. I have read that if an animal doesn’t respond to treatment withing 24 hours he can be treated again. What is your advise on this? Or could he have another issue. What about Polio? Please help me anyway you can…..I am desperate. Thank you once again Mary.
Take Care
Miriam – Can you get your hands on Fortified Vitamin B Complex (injectible)? It contains a high level of Thiamine and B Complex vitamins. I recommend giving the maximum dose. You should dose him for several days, up to 4-5 days if needed. But, if If you do not see results within 24 hours, you need to take your goat back to the vet.
Yes I can probably ask my friend Camille to get some from her work. The thing is the vet she works for doesn’t treat goats. But let me try that first and see if he improves. I will let you know in a few days. Thanks again Mary
Hey Mary just wanted to let you know how Gordo is doing. I took him to the Vet last Wednesday and they ran blood work and gave him shots of ant-inflammatory and antibiotic. They also gave him some IV fluids. Dr. Kim is a wonderful vet…she is not a goat doctor, but she know her stuff. She called me yesterday and told me that some of the blood work had come back and that overall they looked fine just his protein level was a bit high, She thinks is because of all the peanut hay he was eating. Apparently peanut hay is too rich for male goats. I am now giving him O&A. The selenium test did not come in yet so I guess it will be sometime next week. She is pretty sure if one of two things…selenium deficiency or meningeal worms. So we are treating him with safeguard for the meningeal worms. I give him 6cc a day for 7 days. And let me tell you he is doing better. He is walking longer distances without falling and seems in better spirits. Dr. Kim said it could take a couple of weeks or a few days \it all depends on the animal. I know he willl probably never be 100%, but as long as he can move around with the others I am happy. He is a little fighter that Gordo! I will let you know once the blood work on the selenium comes back. Once again thank you for you advise. Good luck with your book . Take care Mary
You’ve made my day. I was just thinking about Gordo. I am glad he is doing better! He is a real trooper. Goats are often like that. They’ll fight until the end, and thankfully, this was not the end for him. For the very reason goats tolerate ailments for so long, I advise people to always suspect even the slightest of change in behavior or eating.
One of my bucks contracted menengial deerworm. We treated repeatedly with little and then no improvement. The symptoms that my buck had was circling and blindness, which I now know reflects the latter part of the ailment. He continued to eat and drink water until he became too week. He then went into paralysis. We had to put him down.
This is the rest of the rest of the story: We lived in Ohio, in a very remote location. We were so excited to fence lush land in for the bucks. The old statement “love kills” is exactly what happened. Little did we know that the very high deer population in the partially wooded pasture had caused the ailment. Menengial (deerworm) use deer as a host, passing the eggs through their feces. Menengial worm passes through deer, but for some reason, when a goat ingests it their spinal cord, and eventually their brain, is affected.
Hefty amounts of dewormer must be administered for a number of days to rid the goat of the parasite. In these cases, it is necessary to have a vet involved.
I am going to write a blog post on menengial worm, and I plan to include a section in the book that I am currently writing. If you have any additional observations, thoughts or comments, let me know.
It was my understanding that menengial worm did not show up in blood or feces tests, so please let me know how it goes. Thank goodness you have a good vet!!!
Mary
I also meant to ask you about the peanut hay. I am from Indiana and Ohio. I purchased alfalfa hay for the herd (despite the cost). In Florida, where I live now, it is my understanding that peanut hay is fed…and yes, it is high in protein (great for does in milk). Did the vet mention that the protein was too rich for Gordo, or was it the hay in general? Alfalfa contains protein and calcium, the calcium was too high for the whethers. When you get a chance, I would love to hear about your vet’s comments on the hay. Thanks!
Yes, she did say the peanut hay was probably the reason why his protein level was a little high. The O&A that I am feeding them now has very little alfalfa in it so its ok to feed him that. The does can eat the peanut hay and the males can have a little as a treat. The reason that its bad for the males is because of the urinary calculi. I guess pure alfalfa is too rich also. I will let you know once I speak to her this week. TC
Thank you for replying. I am going to add information to the book that I am writing about peanut hay.
Hi Mary hope all is well. Just wanted to let you know that Gordo is not doing well today. He had been doing better as I mentioned to you in my previous post, but today he can’t even stand up. It seems to be his front legs that are giving him trouble. It rains here every single day and I can’t exercise him like should. I don’t know what else to do for him. I feel terrible and frustrated. I pray every single day for him to get well and I really thought he was, but today is looks bad. I am still giving him the B-Complex and I stopped the SafeGuard after a 7 day treatment for the deer worm. I read now that I should give him Ivomec Plus because if he did have the deer worm he probably has liver fluke too. I ordered some already. Dr. Kim told me that all his blood work came back pretty good so I am lost. I don’t know what could be possible wrong with him. It breaks my heart that he is suffering. I don’t think he is in pain, but not being able to walk and run around like the rest can not be fun for him. What else can cause weak legs? I have not lost hope for him…he continues to drink and eat pretty well. Looks depressed but still calls out for his family when he doesn’t see them 🙂 Please if you know anything or can get any info please, please let me know. I don’t want my baby to die. Thank you once again for all your help. Sorry if I am being a pest, but you are the only one who has taken the time to write to me.
PS The peanut hay is good for the does but not for the male goats..it is too rich for them and it can cause stones. Alfalfa good for does not for males. You can give them some but only as a treat. I am now giving them O&A which contains very little alfalfa and they like it fine.
Did your vet say anything to you about the meningial deerworm not showing up in blood work? It is my understanding that it cannot be detected through any tests (prior to death) because the parasite attaches itself to the spinal cord. It is not present in feces or blood.
Do not feel bad for asking me questions. Just realize I am limited to my own experience and what I have researched through the years.
It is common for goats and other animals with meningial deerworm to have days where they appear to get much worse before they get better. I am praying today is that day, and Gordo is better tomorrow.
There are treatments that you can administer in addition to the worming schedule that your vet prescribed to help with the pain and swelling, and to ward off paralysis, if he has meningial deerworm. Banamine 1CC per 100 lbs, 2X a day (for pain). Dexamethazone 1CC per 100 lbs, one a day. Treat as outlined for 3 days and then cut the treatment in half for 3 days.
Is Gordo still eating and drinking? You have that in your favor if he is. I suggest trying to get him to stand on his feet, even if it is only for a few minutes. I did this with a doe for 3 weeks before she recovered. I stood over her and helped her to straighten her legs, one by one, until I had her standing. She was a bit wobbly, but I could see her improving, giving her reason to want to keep going.
Outside of the menengial worm, did the vet suspect goat polio or listeriosis? Vitamin B injections would have helped the goat polio (which you already administered). Listeriosis is treated with dexamethazone (see dosage above) and penicillin G injections (every 6 hours for the pen G), along with the fortified vit B complex injections.
IvomecPlus does appear to be the recommended dewormer for meningial deerworm, followed by Safeguard/Panacur.
I hope this information is helpful! Mary
Thank you for your prompt reply. I stood him up a little a while ago and made him walk. He then stood up on his own to pee and walked a few steps. Being that it rains all day it is hard for me to walk him more, but I will keep trying. Yes, he still eats and drinks water….thank God. He is alert and always calls out when his goat family are not in sight. Dr. Kim doesn’t think its polio because he has been like this for a while now and she doesn’t think he would still be alive today if he had that. Yes, Dr. Kim told me that the menengeal worm does not show up in the blood work. The only way is to do a spinal tap and she didn’t want to put him thru that. That’s why she told me to treat him with the wormer (that wouldn’t hurt) so I did. I will give him the Ivomec Plus once I get it.. She did tell me his liver looked good. I don’t know if that means he has no liver flluke????? Anyway, I will give him the Ivomec…it won’t hurt. She also gave him shots of anti immflamatory and antibiotic and something for the pain. I will continue with the B-Complex as well. Thank you once again. I will keep you informed 🙂
Liver fluke brings forward symptoms of anemia – swelling under the jaw (bottle jaw), rough coat, sub-normal temperatures. You haven’t seen those things in Gordo, have you?
Let me know how he does. I am so glad to hear he does get up and joins the herd!
No none of those things. No anemia showed in his blood work and inner eyelids are nice and dark pink. No bottle jaw either. No fever. So I shouldn’t treat him with the Ivomec Plus? If I don’t have to I don’t want to. He did stand up a bit earlier, but now when I went to put him away for the night he couldn’t stand and I tried to help him and he kept falling down and screaming because he gets frustrated…poor thing. I am going crazy Mary…I will let you know in a few days how he is doing. Oh by the way I am giving him the B-Complex only once a day. Should I give it twice???
I know exactly how you feel. You want to be able to make it go away right now.
If you have given him the full dose of dewormer that your vet prescribed I would wait, see how he does.
Continue to give him the B complex. You cannot overdose it.
Hi Mary: Just a little update on Gordo…..He has not gotten any better poor guy but is still eating and drinking just fine. I did the Ivomec Plus for 2 days only because he screams like crazy and I started the safe guard again yesterday. Tomorrow I am going to get him some penicillin and try 3 days of that to see if it help him any. When we try to straighten out his legs he screams in pain. He still tries to move around but he can’t stand up. I gave him a baby aspirin today to see if it helps with the pain. I met a guy at the feed store and he came by today and took a look at him he suggested a round of antibiotics….he said it won’t hurt to try. He also gave me a name of a vet that treats goat in my area (the only one in town). So tomorrow I will be calling him as well. There is something going on with his legs and all I’ve read and what you have told me it seems like MW. Another lady told me that she has llamas and that 3 of them got the MW and it took 3 months to get them up and walking on their own. So she said it is a long recovery. But I don’t mind as long as he gets better. I know he will probably never be 100%, but as long as he can get up and move around on his own and without pain I am happy. If you hear of anything else please let me know. I just want my baby to be ok. I will let you know what this new vet says tomorrow. TC and keep Gordo in your prayers 🙂
Hello –
Please ask the vet about steroid and pain treatments, in addition to the wormer and B complex that you’ve given Gordo.
A common steroid is Dexamethazone, and for the pain Banamine.
The Fortified B Complex, with Thiamine (Vitamin B1) at 100 mg per ml, is a supplement that I like to give when a goat is ill. It helps when they aren’t eating as well as they normally do, by replacing the Thiamine that the rumen normally makes (through the digestion of feed). Thiamine is extremely important to the health of a goat.
Prayers for Gordo! And, bless you for staying in touch with me.
Let me know how it goes,
mary
Hey Mary: I spoke to the vet this morning and he told me to start him on penicillin (for 3 days) and 1 adult aspirin (325mg) a day. So I did as he said. He seemed to be in better spirit and not in pain….at least not like he was yesterday. When my son carried him to put him in his pen he didn’t scream and he didn’t scream too much when I was moving his legs around. But the only thing that I am not liking at this moment is that I didn’t see him urinate today. Tomorrow I will be home all day and I will put him in a sling to make him stand up and move his legs. I don’t know if this will help him urinate. He did urinate yesterday when the man from the feed store (Russell) was here. He moved him around and I massaged his pee-pee and a few minutes later he peed. The vet told me to give him salt so I did. I tried getting ammonium chloride and not one feed store in this town has it. So I bought him the Noble Goat Feed which containes AC. I am think the salt should help too. What about Baking Soda? If he doesn’t urinate by tomorrow I will have to take him to get a catheter to relief him. My poor baby 😦 He is going thru so much and now this. I am so scared that he might not make it. My husband tells me to have faith, and I do but sometimes…………. He does look alert and eats well so I guess this is good. I will let you know how he is doing tomorrow. Thank you once again for all your help and advise. T/C & God Bless You!
Hi There –
I am glad you found feed that contains AC. I think the salt should help too, it helps to pass the minerals, and promotes more frequent urination. It also sounds good to me that he looks alert and eating well.
There is debate about ACV (apple cider vinegar). Some goat owners say it helps to include it in a whether’s water, others say it does not work. I’ll leave that idea with you. I’ve used it in the buck’s water without any bad side effects, and only experienced one case of urinary calculi in my herd.
God bless! Stay in touch. 🙂 Mary
Hi Mary: Update on Gordo: Yesterday I spoke to vet I told you about and he told me to give him penicillin for 3 days along with LA-200. Well I gave him the penicillin but I didn’t get the LA-200 because I know it burns. I don’t want to put him thru more pain. He also told me to give him an adult aspirin (325mg) once a day. He seemed it less pain and he continued to eat well. Now there is another issue…..he doesn’t seem to be urinating. On Monday when Russell (the man from the feed store) we noticed that his belly was dry so we thought he hasn’t peed. So we started pushing down near his bladder and I massaged him a little and a few minutes later he peed. Yesterday nothing and this morning nothing as of yet. We are going to put him up on the sling and see if this will help him pee. I don’t know if being down so much interferes with his being able to urinate. I am going crazy. The vet told me to give him some salt and I did. If I don’t see him pee I guess I have to take him two get a catheter at the vet (I hate that). I couldn’t find ammonium chloride…none of the feed stores in this town carry them :(. I bought him the Noble Goat Feed which contains AC in it. I continue giving him the B-Complex and today he is taking his 4th day of the safe guard. I don’t know what else to do for him. I spoke to a lady who has goats and she has never heard of the MW. But she is really nice and told me to go by her house and pick up some ginger leaves which she says are good for goats and very nutritious. I went last night. She also gave me a few cc’s of wormer. I don’t know what else to do for my poor Gordo. If you hear of anything else please let me know. I appreciate all the info and advise you have given me. I will let you know how he is doing in a few days. T/C
Sorry I thought you didn’t get me previous message because it said there was an error and I wrote to you again…lol
Mary, he finally peed a little while ago. We tried walking him, but he screams in pain. We did it anyway for a while. He is not able to walk on his front legs…he bends them back toward his stomach. We rubbed his legs with rubbing alcohol and gave him a good massage….he peed after that :). He gets his second shot of penicilin tonight. I also scheduled an appointment with the new vet for tomorrow. I need to know what is going on with him. He continues to eat well thank God and calls out for his family when he doesn’t see them around ;). I will let you know tomorrow what the vet says. Thank you and bless you girl.
I hope he does better after the dose of antibiotics. The poor guy. Perhaps the vet will prescribe additional treatment and pain medicine as well.
I will be praying for him.
Let me know how it goes.
Mary
Mary I don’t know if you are getting my messages???
I am having a time of it with Internet connection today. I am phone writing now, hoping it works.
I hope you did see my responses posted earlier today. I will be reviewing everything on a regular computer screen tomorrow to ensure I did not miss anything!
Hello Mary: It is with a heavy heart and great sadness that I write to you today to let you know that my Gordo crossed over the rainbow bridge yesterday. His little body just couldn’t take it anymore. I want to thank you so much for all the advise and caring words you gave me throughout this most difficult time. I will be forever greateful to you. I miss him so very much and I can almost hear him calling out to me as he did every morning. But I know he is at peace now and no longer suffering. He is probably jumping around and doing all the fun goat stuff he couldn’t do here on earth…..this gives me comfort. Once again thank you and may God continue to bless you your family and your pets. Please let me know how your book is coming along. TC my friend
I am so very sorry. Sometimes, no matter how much effort we make to bring our babies back to health we cannot make it happen. You did a wonderful loving and caring job of it. Rest in peace Gordo.
Stay in touch. I will be writing many posts here. I plan to have goats on my farm again within a year, and I’ll will be talking about them, the book, and other related topics.
Blessings to you,
Mary
I have a 2 month old boer doe, she has had a hard lil life. Her mom and twin died and we were given Allie. She has been doing good but yesterday we noticed she cant get up with her front legs. If you stand her up she will walk and eat but only for a few minutes then lay down again. ANy suggestions would be appreciated. Allie is my 4 year old daughters best friend.
Hi Paula –
I will do what I can do to help.
What is your doeling eating? Has there been any changes in feed? What medications and de-workers has she received?
Sorry for the drill. I want to make sure I know as much as I can.
Mary
She still gets her bottle twice a day, she has started nibbling starter feed. She loves to munch and grass and brush and hay. When we got her she was really bad, the vet gave me a shot and 8 pills to give to her. Not sure what any of that was though.
I never heard back from the email that I sent to you. I hope your vet did help with your doeling. Thank you for your questions. – Mary
Hi Mary,
I have 4 babies on the ground right now and only one of them is even attempting to get up. They are lying prone on the ground, appear healthy except for the fact that they can’t stand up at all. They keep moving their legs and bleeting.
I’ve given them milk and having googled the internet regarding kids not standing after birth, found a vet that prescribed BoSe for me. She told me to give the kids 1 cc just under the skin.
We have done this and there isn’t much improvement. Her back legs are fairly well but her front knees won’t lock and she keeps pushing her head skyward (looking at the stars).
I’m sort of at my wits end. Would you suggest that I grab all of the does that are ready to kid and give them a shot of BoSe? We purchased a selinum and vitamin block and gave it to the does in the pasture about two days ago.
Oh my, I am so sorry you are experiencing these troubles.
1 CC is too much BoSe for a 7 lb or less kid. My vet prescribed BoSe at 1CC for 40 pounds. I give my kids an injection of less than 1/4 of CC for an average 7-8 pound kid. An overdose of selenium can lead to the same symptoms as a deficiency. For this reason, I would feel much more comfortable with you calling your vet for additional advice.
How old are the kids? There are other ailments that may cause symptoms such star gazing, or stretching their necks upwards. I am going to continue researching this for you, but please call your vet in the meantime.
Best wishes. I wish I had a better response for you right this very minute.
Mary – Do you have fortified Vitamin B complex on hand? The vet may be able to supply you with some, and many farm and animal stores keep it on their shelves. A dose of B complex is very helpful to an ailing goat, especially if one is down with goat polio. It is the thiamine in the B complex that is so important. Goats cannot overdose on fortified Vitamin B complex, so I recommend dosing an ill goat as often as needed, in addition to any other treatments that are vet recommended. – Mary
[…] Selenium Deficiency […]
is the Bo-Se expensive?
The cost depends upon your vet. He/she may sell the bottle to you at no extra cost (no padding), or, if they have opened bottles, they may even sell it to you by the syringe. Thanks, Mary
Im very interested in ur book. How can i order it?
Hi there –
I am writing the book. I am excited to say it is nearly ready to go to the editors! I plan to publish in/by June.
When the book becomes available I will provide a link on this blog.
Thank you for asking!
Mary
Hi Mary 🙂 We are new to kidding and our doe had her first birth yesterday – twins, one of each. We are picking up a selenium combo injection for the kids tomorrow, but I’m not sure where the best site is for the injection. I’ve administered meds on adult goats before, but the kids have hardly any body weight to them. Any help is appreciated!
Hello!
Congratulations on the birth – and twins!!
I prefer SQ (injections made in the skin, in a pocket that is formed when the skin is pinched into a “tent”), rather than IM (in the muscle). Most goats, especially young kids, are not overly muscular. A goat will fully absorb an SQ injection – the treatment will travel through the body rapidly and thoroughly.
The best areas for SQ injections in young kids is in the extra skin behind the foreleg, or in the skin over the shoulder blade. After giving the injection, gently massage the area, which will help prevent a lump from forming. If a lump does form, it will go away on its own over a period of time (days, weeks to a month).
I hope that helped.
Mary
Thank you Mary. That is usually where I do adult injections, but these ones seem so wee! Another question – the buck kid has a slightly out-turned left back leg, which was noticeable as soon as he stood up after birth. He gets around fine, plays, jumps a little, is able to lay down and get up again. The vet (via telephone) didn’t think it was a selenium deficiency and said it was more likely a genetic defect. I noticed this evening that it looked like the right leg is also starting to turn out. It’s as if the hocks are turning in and going to touch (at this point he is about 32 hours old). Have you experienced anything like this before? I am aware of Floppy Kid Syndrome, and will be on the watch for it. Just wondering if there’s anything else I should be looking for?
Thank you,
Amanda
Amanda,
I have not experienced anything like this in the rear legs, but it could be weak hocks, and that can be caused by a selenium deficiency. It can also reflect how he was situated inside the womb. Keep an eye on him, as long as he is nursing, with no symptoms of poor health, I believe his legs will straighten out. I have splinted and taped front legs, and you may eventually want to do the same to help strengthen his hocks and legs.
There are diseases with symptoms that affect the back legs, such as CAE, but I doubt that is the case. CAE symptoms normally begin appearing after one year of age.
Thank you,
Mary
I picked up the shots today, but couldn’t do it. They squealed too much. Vet is coming tomorrow. I hope waiting an extra day doesn’t cause too much of an issue. Their mama was on a dairy goat grain ration which is fortified with mineral supplements, including selenium, so hopefully they are good for a little longer. I hope it’s okay if I ask another question – one of our kids is a buckling, and we want to keep him as part of our little herd, but not intact (for obvious reasons). Have you wethered a buck to keep on site? The methods I’ve read about don’t seem particularly humane when compared to castrations of family pets (dogs/cats) and it sounds like we need to make the decision asap, while he’s still quite little.
Amanda, we band the buckings that we keep. We sell a number of the boys as bucks, sell some for 4-H, and those that we do not want to breed we band. To us, it seems to be the lesser of the two evils. 🙂
I have a Boer x Doeling we rescued who is getting a dose of selenium this evening. She’s such a trooper but I’m beginning to run out of ideas with her. Finally getting parasites under control and now she hobbles yo walk, collapses, and can’t rise on her own. She’s a poor thing but tries her darndest so I’m pulling out all the stops for her.
Hello there,
You may also try dosing your doeling with Red Cell. It will help to boost her iron and mineral balance and often helps to help perk a goat back up. After repeated wormings, and some goat owners administer it after one worming, consider giving a probiotic. If she is suffering from digestive issues from the chemicals, aprobiotic will help return the natural bacteria balance to the rumen.
Best wishes,
Mary
I have a buck that is weak in the back end. When he steps back he stumbles and sits down like a dog. He also stands bowed legged. Any suggestions?
Hello Miranda,
The first thing I thought of is Meningial worm. Do you live in an area that is populated heavy with white tail deer? The symptoms of Meningial worm range from staggering, weak hind legs, circling, and then the goat worsens with weakness, inability to stand, blindness, and death. Bow legged is not a common symptom. Treatment of this worm must occur early on and recovery is difficult.
I also thought of White Muscle disease due to the weak hind legs. Have you noticed the goat trembling or unable to walk or stand? White Muscle disease is treatable – with the administration of selenium and vitamin E.
What I truly think, though, is your goat has experienced a mineral deficiency. This can be caused by many things. Without knowing the age or history of your goat, I am going to say the most common causes of deficiency is diet (feeds and grasses grown in selenium deficient areas), a prior bout of coccidia, or a worm infestation. An original and annual booster of selenium and vitamin E (Bo-Se) normally is the cure-all for deficiency. In the meantime, supplement with Red Cell and give free choice loose minerals, formulated for goats, and containing copper. Copper helps the goat absorb iron and helps to ward off worm infestation.
I hope that helps.
Thank you,
Mary
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My goats has a weak legs and becomes to hard to walk
I would definitely look into the mineral and selenium content in your feed. Check with your local vet about injectable selenium. Be careful with the dosage (too high of a dosage can be dangerous).